5^th–11^th July 2010

UC: Is it true that Museveni wanted you extradited from Tanzania to come and face trial in Uganda?

Col. Ogole: The other thing people do not know is that Museveni did not only unfairly label me the “Butcher of Luwero”.  For nearly ten years from the time he seized power, he directed his propaganda machinery on me and spent huge sums of taxpayers’ money in an attempt to soil my name. For example, I have heard that some military schools were ordered to create anti-Ogole songs which then became the day opening and closing songs for its students like Kyankwanzi.

In 1987, Museveni planned and tried to forcefully extract me from Tanzania.  I only survived because of the court proceedings that were demanded by the UNHCR.  As a result of that, he lost his battle to return me to Uganda to be tried in his Kangaroo courts, to be convicted, and possibly hanged.  So ultimately, Museveni’s main objective was to eliminate me.  Brig. Smith Opon Achak [RIP], for instance, died under very suspicious circumstances when Museveni got hold of him.  In fact at the time, they said I was with Brig. Smith trying fight Museveni’s government when I was actually in the UK.  When all that failed, again his murder squad followed me to Swaziland where I had been given temporary stay while the UNHCR tried to sort out an asylum country for me after I was expelled from Tanzania.

When he finally realised that I was in the UK, far beyond his immediate reach, interestingly, he changed tactics and sent his Ministers and other people he knew were close to me to try and lure me back to his human butchery.  All these things prove one very important fact:  That Museveni, more than anyone else, knows his own inadequacies and understood that if he were challenged by someone with my military capabilities, he would not survive; hence in hunting me down, Museveni was actually treating his own insecurity and cowardice.  But thank God, the good Lord has kept me alive and healthy; probably healthier than Museveni.  Ha-ha-ha!  Who knows, we might meet and either fight or shake hands some day.  I would prefer to shake hands with Museveni but leave all that to God and him.  The choice is his.

UC: At the time, how did you rate the strength of the then NRA rebels you were deployed to fight against in Luwero?

Col. Ogole: As I said, the NRA were a bunch of innocent, misguided rag-tag bandits who had been terribly misled by a psychotic man who did not value human life; a man who was ready to kill as much as possible to gain power and wealth.  This is precisely why I have very serious doubts about whether Museveni ever attended any military academy.  In fact for Museveni to call himself a General is in my view a serious insult to a profession that is other noble.  Well trained Generals understand that they have a duty to defend the constitution and the sovereignty of their country and its people. Secondly well trained Generals do not rely purely on brute killing as Museveni did to win wars.  There are better ways of winning a war than Museveni’s scorched earth policies.  But I will expand on the subject of NRA strength as well as the tactics I used to defeat Museveni in my book.  I promise you a fee copy.

UC: What do you think were the major factors that helped Museveni’s NRA to defeat the UNLA?

Col. Ogole: Museveni never defeated UNLA.  He can never win any war because he does not understand anything about the military.  You could see that even with the very exhausted and hastily assembled UNLA, Museveni failed to capture any territory occupied by UNLA.  He only kept wallowing in the savannah of the triangle especially in areas occupied by the “Balalo”-his ethnic kinsmen who helped him weed out the indigenous Baganda and took over their land, cattle, coffee, and women.  It is on record that Museveni’s men used to dress up in UPC uniforms and then kill people in Kampala to give the impression that it was UPC doing the killing.  So Museveni is merely an opportunistic coward.  No one beats him at that.  In my view, Tito Okello and Co. literally handed power to Museveni on a silver plate.  Museveni never won that power militarily from UNLA.

Let me give you one more hard fact about the Luwero war that will help all Ugandans judge the NRA’s strength for themselves from now on.  Despite countries like Tanzania, Moi’s Kenya, Sweden, Britain and other external forces helping Museveni in many ways, I flushed the NRA out of Luwero Triangle within 6months of my deployment.  Museveni himself fled to Sweden as a result of that offensive and left his forces scattered on the Rwenzori mountain ranges.  Is that what you call a General; the one who runs off and leaves his forces behind?  I don’t think so.  Some of his NRA bandits even crossed to Zaire and surrendered to the government of Zaire in the aftermath of that single operation.  So they couldn’t have survived me if Bazilio and Tito Okello hadn’t staged a coup against Milton Obote’s government.

UC: There are very many myths and mysteries about the Luwero war.  Is it true, for example, that you once personally chased and nearly captured Museveni?

Col. Ogole: When I was deployed in Luwero, Museveni’s rag-tags had controlled a large stretch of area known as the ‘Luwero Triange’. Not because he had any superior military or battle skills, but because of the terror he had wrecked on the people as I have already stated above.

I strongly believe that most people got killed in the triangle because Museveni’s NRA rebels wanted their land for training and other very sinister reasons.  In fact, some of the land for which many innocent people lost their lives contained massive coffee plantations which they could have, and probably harvested and sold to fund their operations.  That is a very real possibility.  His deployment in Luwero also enabled him to execute his terror tactics in Kampala and other surrounding towns; visiting hell on civilians in those areas and seizing goods from traders along the highway.

When I started in Luwero, all that stopped and within six months Museveni was uprooted from his stronghold running like a wild deer through the savannah of Luwero, Mubende, Kabamba, across to Zaire and finally to Sweden.  His departure from Luwero was not comfortable.  And yes; he nearly lost his life when I commanded the UNLA in Luwero and that is why he has never, and will never forget or forgive me.  But I was simply doing my job.

UC: On a lighter note, what do you make of the rumours that during the Luwero war, Museveni would sometimes turn into cat to avoid detection and capture?

Col. Ogole: That is typical Museveni isn’t it?  Not that he could actually turn into a cat; ha-ha-ha-ha!  I believe has an inherent habit to always embellish his capabilities just to strike fear in people.  He will stop at nothing to create an impression of invincibility.  I think that is where those cat rumours came from.